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-
- (Note from Henry: My experience has not been as bad as this guy's, but
- if you contribute to this system, I thank you. If you don't, you know who
- you are.)
-
- REQUIEM FOR A SYSOP
- -------------------
-
-
- Excerpt from an article in "PC WEEK", Nov. 20, 1984:
-
- "There may be no such thing as a free lunch, but there
- is an ample supply of free software that's yours for the
- asking. All you have to do is dial up, make a connection,
- browse through a couple of menus, check over long lists of
- available software, make your choices and start
- downloading."
-
-
-
-
- Exchange of E-Mail between sysop and BBS user:
- ------------------------------------------------
-
-
- Well, John, the good news is that the faulty file has
- been fixed but the bad news is that your downloading
- privileges have been revoked. I just went through the last
- two months of logs and came up with some interesting
- statistics. During that time you have logged on 23 times,
- downloaded 66 files and uploaded NONE. You have called for
- chat twice, and left a total of two messages on the board,
- one requesting a specific program and the other informing
- me of a disk error in a download file. I can only draw the
- conclusion that you are interested in this board for ONE
- REASON ONLY -- to rape hell out of the download menus.
- I've left plenty of messages regarding PARTICIPATION in the
- BBS and the Message Base, but you either haven't read them
- or else you ignored them. Sorry, but one-way streets just
- don't hack it around here. Jim.
-
-
- Jim, I have been taking part in the BBS. Every time I
- log on I read all the new messages. John.
-
-
- John, I just can't help but feel that in all that time
- you could have at least said "Hi" or "Thanks for the
- downloads" or SOMETHING to acknowledge that there's a real
- live human being on this end. Jim.
-
-
-
- Except for power failures, my computer has been
- continually running since Nov. 11, 1982, and has fieldedèover 12,000 telephone calls operating as a BBS. Back then,
- it was a joy to be a part of the realm of computer
- telecommunications -- now it's a drag. It seems to me that
- a "GIMMEE" attitude has pervaded the whole arena of BBSing,
- with callers interested in nothing more than material gains
- in the way of software. My board is far from the busiest,
- being isolated in the "foreign country" of Montana, but an
- average day will see about 20 or 25 calls to the system.
- An average day will also see about three or four messages
- (of ALL types, including E-Mail) being posted. The typical
- log entry shows so-and-so logging on, going to the file
- transfer area, downloading several files and then logging
- off. Thanks, that's why I started up a BBS, to supply
- people with free programs. Really makes my day to see that
- I've spent all this time and money just to watch pigs at
- the trough.
-
-
- Whatever happened to the COMMUNICATIONS in
- telecommunications? Is this the result of the Computer
- Age, that people don't talk or communicate with each other?
- Are we getting so totally in tune with our equipment that
- we're excluding PEOPLE? If so, then Orwell's predictions
- are tame in comparison with the reality. Who took the
- BULLETIN BOARD out of Bulletin Board System? The file
- transfer section of my board is shiny from daily use, but
- the bulletin section is obscured by cobwebs. The thought
- has crossed my mind more than once just to load up a host
- program and let people grab whatever programs look
- interesting.
-
-
- "Do you have a logon code for this system (Y/N) ==> Y <=="
- "What is your account number? 775"
- "What is your logon code? PASSWORD"
- "INVALID LOGON CODE"
- "Do you have a logon code for this system (Y/N) ==> Y <=="
- "What is your account number? 305"
- "What is your logon code? PASSWORD"
-
- et cetera, ad infinitum et ad nauseam.
-
-
-
- Hackers. Or so they'd like to believe. Vandals, pests,
- yes. Hackers? They should be so talented, devoted and
- lucky. Why do these computerized delinquents find such
- delight in trying to break into bulletin boards? Don't
- they realize that sysops are ordinary people just like
- themselves trying to find a little enjoyment in their
- hobby? Why pick on me? I'm spending a lot of time and
- money trying to provide people a service for free, and they
- want to go and spoil it for everyone. Heck, if they want
- onto the system, all they have to do is apply for a logon.
- Why make life difficult for everyone? Leave me alone. Goèpick on CompuServe.
-
-
- Caller logs on. Leaves E-Mail to a friend. Lines only
- fill half the screen, so he's probably using a Commodore
- 64. Goes to file transfer section, and selects UltraTerm
- protocol. Chooses a file that indicates it's a TRS-80
- program. BBS goes to send, he figures out that he's
- somewhere he doesn't want to be and drops carrier.
-
-
- Another caller logs on four times in a row, but keeps
- losing carrier before he can do anything. Probably
- phreaking on a cheapie phone service.
-
-
- Another caller successfully downloads a file. Sit.
- Wait. Wait some more. System eventually times out and
- drops him.
-
-
- I'm not the most polite person in the world and I'm
- certainly not one to stand on ceremony, but I am old enough
- to remember what manners were. They also went down the
- tubes with "communications" and "bulletin boards." Whoops!
- Dropped carrier! So what? If it's a halfway decent system,
- it'll reboot. Well, I'll just go to bed while downloading
- this long file, the system will eventually throw me off and
- reboot. Never mind that there's other people wanting to
- call into the board. Who cares that the sysop climbs the
- walls when he sees someone drop carrier or time-out on the
- system? Lately I've gotten into the habit of dropping
- carrier ON MY END for the worst offenders. One good
- hang-up deserves another.
-
-
- Along with all the other goodies that have bitten the
- dust, there's good old APPRECIATION. As I mentioned
- before, my BBS has fielded over 12,000 calls. Out of all
- of them, I have gotten maybe a dozen messages saying
- "Thanks for running your BBS." That's about one "Thank
- You" per THOUSAND calls! Unfortunately, it seems that
- people think they have all this automatically coming to
- them. It's their right! Sorry to disillusion anyone, but
- that just ain't so. The master switch for this system is
- two feet away, and I'm not so decrepit that I can't hit it
- in a flash. Alternatively, I can ban anyone I wish from my
- system. Callers use this BBS at my forbearance only, and
- it's not a God-given right. It's a sysop-given privilege!
- I sincerely feel that we should proclaim a "Sysop
- Appreciation Day." We certainly don't get any on a
- day-to-day basis!
-
-
- Don't get me wrong. There ARE joys and benefits inèrunning a BBS, although sometimes in my nether moods I'm
- hard pressed to enumerate them. But the fact is, there
- have been many occasions when I've rested my finger on the
- switch with the idea of going offline forever.
-
-
- Now for the moral of the story. I'm only one sysop
- among many, and I'm not trying to evoke sympathy for myself
- through this article. The point is that almost every sysop
- around has these feelings to some extent or another. And
- further, most of these sysops (especially the best and most
- devoted ones) are going to reach a saturation point and
- wind up depriving the general public of their services. I
- foresee a day coming, and very soon at that, when the high
- quality BBS's will be all gone. So all this is really a
- plea for everyone to shape up their acts before it's too
- late. If nothing else, when you're on a bulletin board,
- leave a little message to the sysop. "Thanks for the use
- of your system" or "Fine BBS you have here." Let them know
- they're appreciated. When I see a message like that, I say
- to myself, "THAT's why I'm doing all this!" Sysops are
- real, live human beings with feelings and emotions. Let's
- start treating them as such!
-
-
-
- Epilogue: Twelve hours after the above was written, I find
- out that one of my best friends (with higher than normal
- access to the system) has allowed a third party to use her
- logon. That's forbidden for anyone on my BBS to do, but it
- hurts even more because a valued and trusted friend who
- should have known better went and did it. That's the final
- straw. The Most Significant Byte BBS is no longer in
- existence.
-
-
-
- Jim Anderson, Ex-Sysop
- The Most Significant Byte BBS
- Billings, Montana
- January 13, 1984
-
- -------------------------------
-
-
- WHY I DO IT
-
- P. L. Olympia
- Sysop, SUGI SIG/M RBBS, 301-963-5249
- 02/08/85
-
- PURPOSE
-
- The purpose of this little piece is to explain to you who
- are users of my RBBS why I operate the board and why the BBSèhas the "peculiarities" that it has. I also want to let you
- know what it is like being on this end of the modem line in
- the hope that once you understand what it is like to be a
- Sysop, you will be more sensitive to the code of behavior
- expected of you as an RBBS user.
-
- There is one other reason for this piece: I am increasingly
- forced to adopt certain restrictions that are diametrically
- opposed to my "religion" of keeping an open RBBS. I have
- always said, when I first started this, that I would rather shut
- down the BBS than adopt certain policies that I find distasteful.
- So, if one day you call, and find the phone just ringing,
- you will know why.
-
- Let me say at the outset that in my experience, many RBBS
- callers observe the ground rules and truly deserve the service.
- If you belong to that group please do not be offended by
- what I have to say here as any offensive remark you find in
- this piece clearly is not meant for you.
-
- WHY I DO IT
-
- I operate the SUGI SIG/M RBBS as a free public service for
- several reasons:
-
- o Computing, particularly DBMS and telecommunications, is
- my hobby. I run a lot of experiments with the BBS for my
- own intellectual growth;
-
- o As a forum of information exchange among SUGI SIG/M
- members in particular, and the public in general;
-
- o To repay those Sysops and users who have shared with me
- (from the early years when I operated a private CP/M BBS)
- some of the best public domain programs in the world;
-
- o To help responsible novices get started (I was a novice
- too at one time) so that they may later share their knowledge
- with others;
-
- o I have watched RBBS-PC grow over the years, and I lamented the
- fact that unlike RCP/M, no one bothered to
- organize and maintain a comprehensive and up-to-date list
- of RBBS's in the country. I knew that doing that is alot
- of work, but someone had to do it. I "volunteered" to be
- that one. Thus, one of the important functions of the
- SUGI SIG/M RBBS is as a repository of the most complete
- and up-to-date RBBS list as a service to the entire RBBS
- community.
-
- The SUGI SIG/M RBBS, like most boards in the country, is
- a professional BBS intended solely for serious business
- users. It has an educational games section only because
- most serious professionals have children who might use
- those games to get started. Mine did at the age of fourè and is now doing very well, thank you.
-
- I like to think that my RBBS is one of the best in the
- country. If it is not, it is NOT because I did not try. I
- am still trying.
-
- WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING?
-
- I am a firm believer of an open RBBS, that "registration"
- is totally unnecessary. I was convinced that users who have
- been provided a useful and free tool will, at the very least,
- observe certain ground rules laid out by the Sysop. For more
- than six months, mine was probably the only RBBS-PC in the
- country where no daily time limit was imposed - a user can log
- on any number of times on a given day so long as she waits at
- least 20 minutes between calls to give others a chance.
- While 95% of the callers did just that, the rotten 5%
- spoiled things for everyone and I was forced to impose the
- daily time limit you now labor under. As if that were not
- enough some callers persisted in logging on under fictitious
- names despite my plea right there on the Welcome screen that
- aliases are not tolerated on the board. Some did it because
- they never matured; others did it as a way to get around the
- daily time limit so that, to paraphrase Jim Anderson in his
- REQUIEM.TXT (which is required reading for you), the "pigs can
- feed some more at the trough".
-
- Against my will, I was then forced to institute a policy
- that new users cannot download files or perform most normal
- RBBS functions until they leave their name, address and phone.
- The policy was meant to be temporary; I have removed the
- restriction twice in two months only to institute it again,
- because a very small minority of callers made life difficult
- for me and everybody else. The day I adopt this policy on a
- permanent basis is the day I shut down this BBS. I think that
- new callers owe it to the Sysop to leave the information as a
- gesture of COURTESY even if the BBS does not have a registration
- policy. I encourage my callers to tell me where they
- work only because I deal with a lot of companies and just in
- case my business folds, I would like to have a place to recommend
- to my staff. I look at that as a service to the companies
- because my staff is very good.
-
- Most BBS in the country now has a "registration" policy.
- And who can blame Sysops for adopting that? I know for a fact
- that a Sysop would prefer not to have that policy were it not
- for a very small minority of immature, delinquent and inconsiderate
- callers. Just so you understand some of the reasons
- for that policy, take heed of a Sysop's pet peeves below. I do
- not speak for anyone but myself but I am willing to bet that
- my own pet peeves are also other Sysops'.
-
- MY PET PEEVES
-
- 1. THE SYSTEM CRACKERSè
- Crackers (not "Hackers", the press has caused much confusion
- in terminology) are the lowest form of life. They are a
- bunch of delinquent nincompoops who find special delight in
- trying to break into BBS's to cause irreversible damage in the
- hope of depriving people a free and useful service. I am fortunate
- in that out of about 6000 calls thus far, I have been
- visited by these slimes only 15 times and all attempts to
- break into the system have been fruitless. These jokers have
- tried many times to download the RBBS secure files including
- user passwords, commercial programs (a definite no-no) used to
- operate the RBBS, and even my AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS
- files which contain nothing that will help them. Ninety percent
- of these delinquents call at 300 bps, one reason I will
- no longer support 300 bps in the very near future.
-
- These frustrated crackers vent their frustration by
- leaving nasty messages. And I thought I already have a wide
- vocabulary!
-
- I have lost my patience with these moral eunuchs, and
- hereby issuing fair warning. If you are a twit, start growing
- up. The next time you try to download a forbidden file
- from me, the system will give it to you, but if you try to use
- it ... bingo!
-
- 2. THE GIMMES
-
- Jim was right on target in his condemnation of callers who
- labor under the illusion that an RBBS is a one-way street that
- exists only for the enrichment of their software collection.
- It is sad but true - the majority of callers fall under this
- category. I have entertained the idea of modifying PC-TALK so
- that it only has a DOWNLOAD function. Might as well. The upload
- function has never been used by these callers. I was
- going to re-issue the program under the name ... you guessed
- it ... PC-GIMME.EXE.
-
- If you are a novice, no one is blaming you if all you do is
- download. One of the reasons for an RBBS is to help novices
- get started. It seems to me, though, that once you have downloaded
- 40 or so files, you should have benefited from those
- files and stopped being a novice. It is time to repay some of
- those folks who helped you. I have two callers on my system
- who have downloaded 230+ files and uploaded NONE. I hope those
- fellows download this file - their last.
-
- Not everyone is born to be a programmer. Even if you do not
- have an original program to contribute to the public domain,
- there are many things you can do to help your Sysop.
-
- I am still naive and believe that most people would like
- to contribute and may not know how. Well, here's how for a
- start.
- è One, if you see a message on the board (you do know that
- there is a message section on the BBS, right?) from someone
- asking a question or asking for help, and you think you have
- the answer, by all means respond to the message. Don't just
- depend on the Sysop to provide a free consulting service to
- everybody.
-
- Two, if you discover something useful either in the course
- of your work or as a result of reading an article or whatever,
- don't keep it to yourself. Either post a message on the BBS or
- write a little text file and upload it.
-
- Three, a Sysop should not have to call all over the country
- so that you may have files to download. If you run across a
- new and useful file on another BBS (particularly if it is long
- distance from your favorite Sysop's BBS), upload the file.
- Some callers think that Sysops do not want their files sent to
- other boards. Nothing can be farther from the truth. All public
- domain programs are meant to be shared and all boards
- exist for that purpose if nothing else. Just the other day I
- sent one of my original programs to my favorite board in the
- South, and later that afternoon a Sysop from NJ sent me the
- same file that I had just released a few hours earlier!
-
- There are two severe forms of "gimmes". One is called
- "vulturitis" and afflicts a very few (thankfully) who logs on
- every single night - at prime time at that - and picks off
- the files as soon as the Sysop puts them up. Another form is
- called "author-gimmes" and afflicts two "locals" on my BBS
- who have authored one or two useful programs that somehow
- found themselves on other local boards but mine. These fellows
- are regular "gimmes" on my board. I don't get it. Pun intended.
-
- 3. THE INCONSIDERATES
-
- The inconsiderates (1) download a file then go to Peoria
- while the file transfer is in progress and let the system time
- out and log them off, (2) just drop carrier when they're done
- without the decency of issuing G(oodbye), (3) calls to see the
- color screen and hear the Welcome music, drops carrier then
- calls again for another round of color and music, (4) sign on
- with multiple aliases for more time at the "pig trough".
-
- 4. THE CONTROL-S'ERS
-
- These callers like to do a CTRL-S to prevent the screen
- from scrolling without realizing that unless they caused the
- system to do otherwise, the system will pause per screenful of
- lines. If you belong to this group you should know that (at
- least on my system) whenever you do a CTRL-S, both partitions
- of Multilink freeze and I am not able to continue whatever I
- am doing in the foreground. I promise you that I will only
- tolerate so many CTRL-S in one session particularly during
- daytime when I am at the office using the machine in the foreground.
- I will always drop carrier on CTRL-S users who call inèat 300 bps during the day as that compounds the problem. You
- should know that extensive screen listing at 300 bps slows me
- down in the foreground. Thus, if you have a choice of ASCII or
- XMODEM download, pick XMODEM.
- If you are an incurable CTRL-S'er, call at night - very
- late at night.
-
- 5. THE INGRATES
-
- These hopeless creatures do not bother to read the bulletins
- and become very upset because their access level is low.
- One even left a message saying "I demand a high access level".
- Demand? Have I got news for you, buddy! You use this BBS
- because I say so. You don't use it for the same reason. This
- is not your birthright. I think Jim said much the same thing.
-
- WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO RUN AN RBBS?
-
- By now, you should have an idea of what a Sysop's life is
- like. If you are thinking of starting a first-class RBBS, you
- should know that it takes infinite patience and a lot of time.
- I spend an average of two and a half hours a day on the RBBS
- doing such things as responding to comments and messages,
- uploading files from home, changing new users access level,
- organizing file directories, deleting useless files, looking
- new files over and updating bulletins particularly the RBBS
- list.
- You must love computing to be a Sysop. You also have to be
- crazy.
-
- PARTING NOTE
-
- I would like to end this piece with a note of thanks to
- those callers who have made running the RBBS worth all the
- heartburn. I am privileged to have a community of 25-30
- callers (out of almost a thousand) who know what RBBSing is
- all about. What makes the SUGI SIG/M RBBS unique is not that it has far
- more out-of-town callers than local callers, but
- that it has this small community of users who have gone out
- of their way to help the system grow and who think of the
- RBBS as their own.
-
- Which, of course, it is.
-
- ----------------------------
-
- What ever happened to real bulletin-board systems?
-
-
- First off, I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I cannot
- be objective in these notes. These are observations, but they
- are from 1) a Sysop
- 2) a user of 8BBS, the greatest BBS ever evolved
- 3) a boy ... who's become a boyish programmer
- 4) an old timer....1977 was when I first startedè using BBS systems.
- 5) the author of a BBS system
-
- If you're expecting objectivity, then don't bother reading
- on. I have a rather unique perspective on the entire BBS scene.
- I've been around since close to the beginning, and I'm wondering
- what has happened. Have BBS's gone the way of CB? Is the entire
- system in a slump? Is there anything wrong at all?
-
- I'm going to try to present these questions and show how
- things have changed...for the better, and for the worst.
-
- HISTORY:
-
- A long time ago, in a city far-far away, two men had an
- insight. Ward Christensen and Randy Suess wanted a way to leave
- notes and messages to their programmer/engineer friends. Back
- then, modems were used by field-engineers and some high-level
- executives to talk to their companies computers. A 300 baud
- modem was extremely fast, as most people were using 110 baud
- TeleTypes. Ward and Randy devloped the concept of the BBS. They
- called it CBBS, for "Computer Bulletin Board System." CBBS was
- the first of its kind. It was an enormous program written in
- 8080 assmebly language. By our standards today, it was kludgy
- and bug-ridden, but back then it was heavenly. Users could enter
- messages and read messages... that was about it.
-
- CBBS was a wonderful concept, but it was localized to the
- Chicago area. Ward and Randy were the only ones who were running
- the program. Then Bill Blue came along and wrote ABBS, which was
- designed to "emulate" the CBBS system. I feel it was ABBS,
- rather than CBBS which made the real breakthrough. While ABBS
- was much less powerful, and more difficult to use, it could be
- run on a "universal" machine: --The Apple ][--
-
- Anyone with an Apple ][ and a D.C. Hayes MM][ modem could
- run ABBS. This program could be installed in a matter of
- minutes, and anyone could have their own bulletin board system.
- Soon after the release of ABBS, several other BBS programs (for
- various computers) soon followed. ABBS was the king for many
- years, just because there were more ABBS systems than any other
- BBS program available.
-
- It is this time that I would like to refer to as the "Golden
- age of the BBS." It wasn't as golden as you might think. Most
- Sysops would come home every evening from work to find that their
- BBS had crashed because of yet another bug. Even back then,
- user's logged in under false names and left obscene messages.
-
- The one point that made that age golden was the users.
- Without users, a BBS is just a program. With users, it gains a
- personality, and if I may be metaphysical, a soul. The users
- MAKE the BBS. A Sysop may have the greatest BBS program in the
- world, but without active users, he just has a computer wasting
- line-current.è
- LIFE IN THE "GOLDEN AGE"
-
- A user would think nothing of spending his Saturday helping
- "The Sysop" find an intermittant bug in the BBS program.
-
- A user would not only answer his or HER mail, but also butt
- into other people's conversations and throw in his/her two cents
- worth.
-
- A user would suggest improvements to make the system easier
- to use.
-
- A Sysop would care for his BBS like a baby. He'd spend 2
- hours each night writing messages and playing with modifications
- to the program.
-
- A Sysop would NOT restrict conversation to one particular
- topic...such as CP/M software.
-
- A Sysop would tolerate kids who were just learning how to
- use modems. He'd even give them a hand getting things working.
-
- A Sysop would [on his own preference] dilligently weed out
- obscene or "pseudo-illegal" messages, -- or -- promote them as
- he saw fit.
-
- Users would start clubs, such as the well known "Gabber
- Gang" and later the infamous "Phone Phriekers" who figured so
- prominently into BBS history.
-
- The government didn't try to restrict BBS users. It was
- just "us" against tyranny (at that time "Ma Bell"). Although
- most users did not approve of "Phone Phrieking", everyone talked
- about it, and was interested in it for curiosity sake if nothing
- else. [Hard to believe, but true.]
-
- Uploading and downloading of programs did not exist.
-
- BBS's were few and far between. When I wrote the OxGate,
- the two closest other CP/M based machines were Kelly Smith in
- Simi Valley (375 miles away), and "Jim C" in Larkspur (100 miles
- away). People tended to congregate on the local system.
-
- WHAT HAS KILLED BBS SYSTEMS:
-
- 1) Program uploading and downloading.
- People just get their programs and leave.
-
- 2) The technical clique's retaliation against "gabbers"
- who just used the systems for personal communication.
-
- 3) Too many BBS systems in one area.
- BBS's are still alive and healthy in low-density areas.
- è 4) The loss of "anonimity" among BBS users.
- The BBS used to be the place to escape. Where no one
- had to be "themselves." Users such as "James Bond"
- and "Captain Scarlet" were given free reign to vent
- their fantasies. Today, most systems do not allow
- false names so they can keep track of users.
-
- 5) The anti-hacker movement.
- More and more people today think the word "hacker"
- means "phone phriek/computer crasher."
- All it ever meant was "great programmer." You would
- feel proud if someone labeled you a "hacker."
-
- 6) The press' ignorance of the BBS community.
- By trying to make a scandal out of all of it, they
- ruined a great form of communication.
- In particular, the magazine "InfoWorld" has done more
- harm to the BBS community than other press organization.
- While they actively TRIED to HELP the community, they
- have caused more harm in their mis-reporting of info.
-
- 7) Sysop's ignorance. Quite frankly, the average quality
- of "Sysop" has dropped. Sysop's are (on the whole)
- less active and less responsive than 5 years ago.
- More and more of them are technically incompetent, they
- couldn't fix a bug if it bit them in the nose.
-
- All of these problems are inter-related. We can't solve any of
- them until all of them are solved. From my descriptions it
- should be obvious that the "golden age" certainly wasn't all
- gold. People like "James Bond" and "Sam Daniels" had to be
- stopped, but the pendulum has swung too far to the opposite
- side.
-
- These observations are very general. I've noticed this swing,
- and it has taken place on 95% of all of the system's I've called
- across America. It's sad that these problems have stabbed us in
- the back, but it's not too late to try and bring about a change.
- I don't have the answers, but maybe these observations will
- prompt thought into this death of a virtual "art form" of
- communication.
-
- There is one possible solution to this problem... the acceptance
- of children again. For too long we've been kicking off kids
- (both phyiscal and "kids at heart"). They've been disruptive,
- and caused fights galore. Many have even tried to crash the
- systems they used.
-
- "If there's any hope, it lies with the proles."
- -- George Orwell, _1984_
- Perhaps the thing to do is call a few local Commodore and Apple
- boards and let the users know that they're just as welcome on
- your super-fancy 100mb 2400 baud RCP/M system as any of your so-
- called "serious users" . . . "serious users" who can't even bring
- themselves to answer their own mail. Saddening.è